AFA Follies

[herveus]

...found in my in box this afternoon: (comments in italics)

Hindu to open Senate with prayer

Send an email to your senator now, expressing your disappointment in the Senate decision to invite a Hindu to open the session with prayer.

Dear Michael,

Please read this news report from OneNewsNow.com.

On Thursday, a Hindu chaplain from Reno, Nevada, by the name of Rajan Zed is scheduled to deliver the opening prayer in the U.S. Senate. Zed tells the Las Vegas Sun that in his prayer he will likely include references to ancient Hindu scriptures, including Rig Veda, Upanishards, and Bhagavard-Gita. Historians believe it will be the first Hindu prayer ever read at the Senate since it was formed in 1789.

WallBuilders president David Barton is questioning why the U.S. government is seeking the invocation of a non-monotheistic god. Barton points out that since Hindus worship multiple gods, the prayer will be completely outside the American paradigm, flying in the face of the American motto "One Nation Under God."
"WallBuilders"? That's a telling name. What is this "American paradigm" he speaks of? I do not recognize it. The motto, aside from not being prescriptive, does not say "One Nation Under One God".

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"In Hindu, you have not one God, but many, many, many, many, many gods," the Christian historian explains. "And certainly that was never in the minds of those who did the Constitution, did the Declaration [of Independence] when they talked about Creator -- that's not one that fits here because we don't know which creator we're talking about within the Hindu religion."
what a small mind, that he cannot sort this out. Isn't there one of the Hindu pantheon that is "the creator"?

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Barton says given the fact that Hindus are a tiny constituency of the American public, he questions the motivation of Senate leaders. "This is not a religion that has produced great things in the world," he observes. "You look at India, you look at Nepal -- there's persecution going in both of those countries that is gendered by the religious belief that is present there, and Hindu dominates in both of those countries."
Nope. No great things. None at all. And the Hindus are never the subject of persecution. Nope. Not at all.

And while Barton acknowledges there is not constitutional problem with a Hindu prayer in the Senate, he wonders about the political side of it. "One definitely wonders about the pragmatic side of it," he says. "What is the message, and why is the message needed? And will it actually communicate anything other than engender with folks like me a lot of questions?"

Barton says he knows of at least seven cases where Christians have lost their bid to express their own faith in a public prayer.
What does he really mean? Do we have citations, or it this just anecdotal MSU?

Zed is reportedly the first Hindu to deliver opening prayers in an American state legislature, having done so in both the Nevada State Assembly and Nevada State Senate earlier this year. He has stated that Thursday's prayer will be "universal in approach," despite being drawn from Hindu religious texts.

Take Action

Send an email to your senator now, expressing your disappointment in the Senate decision to invite a Hindu to open the session with prayer.

...or, if you feel as I do, contact your senators and tell them that this is a wonderful development.

Comments

[mariedeblois.livejournal.com]

Interestingly, I do disagree with the idea of having a Hindu open the Senate with a prayer, but because I disagree with the idea of opening the Senate with a prayer at all.

[herveus.livejournal.com]

That's a sound, rational reason to object.

[weatherman2111.livejournal.com]

So not only are they homophobic, they're also xenophobic and racist.


Lovely.

[dr-zrfq.livejournal.com]

Yeah, but given who it's from, it's rather to be expected. Subtle they are not.

[thatpotteryguy.livejournal.com]

Ooh, ooh, ooh! You forgot facist, sexist, and willfully ignorant! Also, bigoted, small-minded, cowardly, and fearful of any change to the status quo.

[wolfette]

in fact, if you actually talk to Hindus they will explain that there is indeed only "one" god - and that all the gods are in fact aspects of that.

[herveus.livejournal.com]

Damn! They're worse than trinitarians!

[dr-zrfq.livejournal.com]

So does that mean the Unitarian Jihad (http://sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?file=/chronicle/archive/2005/04/08/DDG27BCFLG1.DTL) should go burn question marks on their front lawns?

[hazebrouck.livejournal.com]

Oooh! I want to play!

[luscious-purple.livejournal.com]

Mmm, I'd like to tell Barbara M. that having a Hindu prayer once in a while is a Good Thing!

[hazebrouck.livejournal.com]

So let's get this straight. He's prejudiced against Hinduism because some Hindus practice religous prejudice? Shakes head.

[hazebrouck.livejournal.com]

Here is a rebuttal against the claim of Hindu persecution against Christians in India, written by a Catholic who is married to an Indian woman and has lived there most of his life.
http://www.stephen-knapp.com/christian_persecution_in_india.htm

[goddessgoddess.livejournal.com]

I hate it when people who talk about waco say "innocent women and children" without mentioning some of the men there were innocent of crime or criminal intent as well, and some of the women were not innocent.

[kass-rants.livejournal.com]

WallBuilders president David Barton is questioning why the U.S. government is seeking the invocation of a non-monotheistic god. Barton points out that since Hindus worship multiple gods, the prayer will be completely outside the American paradigm, flying in the face of the American motto "One Nation Under God."
Hinduism is not polytheistic. It is henotheistic -- a belief in one diety that accepts the existence of other Gods. Some Hindus would argue that their religion is as monotheistic as Catholicism. Some Hindus view Brahman as the only God in their religion. The other "gods" are like Catholic saints -- helpers, interveners, people who attained perfection in their lives and help people still in this world to reach God. Some sects consider the various Gods to be different faces of Brahman, much like Christ and the Holy Spirit are different aspects of God the Creator in the Christian Trinity. There are many versions of Hinduism, much like Christianity.

"In Hindu, you have not one God, but many, many, many, many, many gods," the Christian historian explains. "And certainly that was never in the minds of those who did the Constitution, did the Declaration [of Independence] when they talked about Creator -- that's not one that fits here because we don't know which creator we're talking about within the Hindu religion."
Apparently this Christian historian hasn't picked up a book on any religion but his own. Sanātana Dharma -- the belief system that Westerners call Hinduism -- has a creation story just like ever other religion. Brahman created the world and set it spinning. He is the only Hindu God called the creator.

Barton says given the fact that Hindus are a tiny constituency of the American public, he questions the motivation of Senate leaders. "This is not a religion that has produced great things in the world," he observes. "You look at India, you look at Nepal -- there's persecution going in both of those countries that is gendered by the religious belief that is present there, and Hindu dominates in both of those countries."
Nah. It's only the cradle of human civilization! The oldest human settlements of Mohenjo Dara and Harappa are in the Indian subcontinent.

And a "tiny constituency"?!?! He really needs to get out more...

And while Barton acknowledges there is not constitutional problem with a Hindu prayer in the Senate, he wonders about the political side of it. "One definitely wonders about the pragmatic side of it," he says. "What is the message, and why is the message needed? And will it actually communicate anything other than engender with folks like me a lot of questions?"
One expects the message is Freedom of Speech, Freedom of Religion, Freedom of Assembly, you know... those boring things.

Barton says he knows of at least seven cases where Christians have lost their bid to express their own faith in a public prayer.
Bullshit. I want a citation. A Christian I know complains about her child not being allowed to wear God t-shirts in school. But she doesn't know you can't wear a Wiccan one either.

Zed is reportedly the first Hindu to deliver opening prayers in an American state legislature, having done so in both the Nevada State Assembly and Nevada State Senate earlier this year. He has stated that Thursday's prayer will be "universal in approach," despite being drawn from Hindu religious texts.
Bravo, I say. Recent research is showing that this is the religion that may have actually taught Jesus to love his neighbours.

[margaretc.livejournal.com]

And while Barton acknowledges there is not constitutional problem with a Hindu prayer in the Senate, he wonders about the political side of it. "One definitely wonders about the pragmatic side of it," he says. "What is the message, and why is the message needed? And will it actually communicate anything other than engender with folks like me a lot of questions?"

You know, I LIKE having new questions. Makes me think. Thinking is good. It's really very boring going over all the same old material over and over again.

[maggiebowgirl.livejournal.com]

Wow. Just.... wow. Maybe I'll call up my senator and tell them Yay for having a Hindu prayer. Oh wait, I don't have a senator. Drat.

Still, heh, its shaking folks up. Whee!

[thatpotteryguy.livejournal.com]

I'm afraid, to my eternal shame, that as soon as I read the chaplain's name, I thought to myself "Zed's dead, baby. Zed's dead"

Sorry.

[kass-rants.livejournal.com]

Ooooo! Oooo! Ooooo! I just thought of something!

If this Hindu gentleman brings a Shiva Lingam to revere, I'm drive down just to watch. Most of them are quite a bit more... "anthropomorphic" than this one: http://www.indiantemples.com/beliefs/shivling.htm LOL

What does Barton really fear?

[snolan.livejournal.com]

The exchange of ideas between different faiths, when done calmly and openly, is a wonderful learning experience. Perhaps that is what Barton really fears. Imagine if a large percentage of his followers suddenly began to think for themselves... buhahahaha

When I got hitched to sutragirl her chosen faith du jour was Lutheran, and so we had a ceremony in her Lutheran church. The pastor wisely and shrewdly made it a condition that I first attend a bible study group he was hosting before he'd marry us; not because he wanted me to convert from Buddhism, but because he wanted me to stir up trouble and create discussion in the bible-study group as a Buddhist. It was a lot of fun, and I and the other study group members all learned a lot from the interchange of ideas. One of the things we explored was the possibility (unproven) that a large part of the teachings of Jesus of Nazareth were in some part derived from Hindu/Vedic and Buddhist teachings brought back to the Hellenistic world after Alexander the Great's brief foray into the Indus valley. An interesting possibility.

Anyways - I still think that Barton's real fear is losing control of large numbers of his own clueless followers.

[meradudd.livejournal.com]

Barton points out that since Hindus worship multiple gods, the prayer will be completely outside the American paradigm, flying in the face of the American motto "One Nation Under God."

There have been at least four separate congressional acts regarding the 'American motto' which Mr. Barton describes (1864, 1907, 1955, 1956), and all describe the _official_ motto of the United States of America as "In God We Trust".

The phrase 'one nation under God' is a Cold War addition (added in 1954) to the Pledge of Allegiance (which was officially adopted in 1942) that was designed to, in the words of then-President Eisenhower, "...constantly strengthen those spiritual weapons which forever will be our country's most powerful resource in peace and war." Of PARTICULAR interest is the 9th circuit court's decision in 2002 to strike down Eisenhower's addition as unconstitutional. an excerpt of the majority opinion:

"A profession that we are a nation 'under God' is identical ... to a profession that we are a nation 'under Jesus,' a nation 'under Vishnu,' a nation 'under Zeus,' or a nation 'under no god.'"

hrm....

IF $Nation_Under_God == $Nation_Under_Vishnu == $Nation_Under_Allah
printf ("Free at last, free at last. Thank God Almighty, free at last");
ELSE
fp = fopen("division.dat", "r");
printf (fp, rove_1);

yah yah...sloppy code, but I haven't looked at stuff like this in years.

[goddessgoddess.livejournal.com]

I guess seperation of church and state are only theoretical. Congress, and indeed, any governmental entity has no reason to open a political session with prayer of any type.

[luscious-purple.livejournal.com]

You may also be interested in the followup:

http://patgund.livejournal.com/1817010.html